[4] a Psychic Perspective on Social Change
(Podcast Transcript)
Intro
Forest:
How is the imagination vital to well-being?
What if the transition out of war culture could be gentle?
and easeful?
How does spirituality enhance our activism towards peace on Earth?
Today’s guest, Fēnix Grace, has been a spiritual mentor to me for the past 6 months. And as a psychic, her perspective is pretty out of this world.
So, I’m delighted to share her joyful insights with you all today.
Enjoy!
Welcome to the Abundant Futures Podcast, where we aid the collective transition from scarcity to abundance by divesting from imperialist relationship norms. I'm your host Forest queer witch certified relationship coach and disciple of love.
May you be filled with hope by expanding your awareness and understanding the actionable steps you can take to day for a better tomorrow.
May you feel inspired by the real world examples of what's possible outside of capitalism, imperialism.
May this be in service of collective liberation.
And so it is.
Forest:
All right, Fēnix, welcome to Abundant Futures podcast!
I'm so happy you were able to make it here through the technical difficulties.
Fēnix:
I made it! hahaha
Forest:
Hahaha yes.
So I would love for folks to get to know you through your own words.
So, however you'd like to introduce yourself – go ahead.
Fēnix:
hmm.
hmm.
Yeah.
Mm
Well, first and foremost, I want to start by saying that I am a soul who loves to grow hehe
I love growing, and in this lifetime I'm really learning about how to love myself.
And how to be – how to bring a deeper level of emotional maturity to my relationships and just how to really be friends with my body, ha
Yeah, I have a lot of Scorpio in my chart, hehehe
so I love the depths. I love having underworld wings hehehe
And I'm just grateful to be on Earth. I feel like it's an incredibly exciting, activating, transformative time to be on the planet. And I just love being here for this just, like, really pivotal moment in the human species evolution.
Forest:
mhmm
Fēnix:
And yeah, you know, my passions are around intuition and healing and spirituality.
And really another thing I'm really learning is how to have a female body this lifetime. My last lifetimes for a few – for a while – has been in a male body. And I'm like, Whew, female body. What is this like?
hahaha
Forest:
I'm relating to that, yeah, hahaha
Fēnix:
hahahaha
Um, and
yeah, I really love just learning how to reclaim my intuitive abilities this lifetime and using them to empower myself and then helping other people be empowered with their intuition.
And I'm a writer and a healer and, um.
Yeah, learning so much. Always.
A curious soul who loves to grow.
Forest:
Wow.
I love asking people to introduce themselves in their own words because that is definitely like a Fēnix introduction. Like, nobody else could have done that. So thanks for that hahaha
Fēnix:
hahaha
Forest:
Yeah.
So, I mean, one of the reasons that I got connected with you is because you were – at least your Instagram handle at the time – I've been off Instagram for a few years, so I don't know what's happening there right now. But at the time – this was back in 2020, someone I was dating was like, “Oh, you need some help with some shadow work?”
Like, “reach out to this queer psychic I know”
And that was your Instagram handle. I did a session and that was my first experience ever with, like, psychic stuff. I didn’t even know you could, like, hire a psychic. I don't know. I was just, like, so new to that realm. And then the healing I received from you – and the reading, too, was so powerful and insightful and just fucking helpful – I was like, “Oh my God.” It’s changed my life, honestly. I mean, because now I'm in psychic school, really. So it's been this whole, like, path that I've just kind of found myself going down over the last four years.
So I'm curious – well, is queer psychic, that kind of like how to label, if you will. I mean. You’re such a multidimensional being, so I don't want to like confine you into one thing, but I'm curious about that specific combination of concepts. Does that still resonate with you?
Fēnix:
It does still resonate. I've since rebranded my Instagram handle just to be my name. But I – something that I love about queerness and psychic-ness is they're very similar in some ways.
Like, I've been on a whole exploration and journey with my own queerness and how I identify in terms of my gender has changed a lot. And then also my bisexuality, which has kind of always been this thing that I like hid for many years and then slowly came into and yeah.
And so something that I've observed about queerness and my own explorations of that, and then also when I look at the queer just blooming on the planet – of people coming into that – is it is very much this theme of like – on a soul level we all have got this queer vibration to us, you know, where it is not just like binary – one or the other. It's very fluid.
And it's interesting to me how my path with exploring my sexual and gender fluidity and then my spiritual path, I've been kind of like this, you know?
Forest:
Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, the reason I was asking is because, at least in my personal experience, you know, like, the spiritual path has really saved my life, honestly. Like, I wouldn't be here without it.
And it's not just any spiritual path. It's like the queer spiritual path haha. Because I've found where the places are that resonate and where the places are that don't. And it seems like – like no offense to straight people – but, you know, it's just like, ahh, there's something about the blindspots of the dominant culture. To me, it just kind of internalizes imperialism – and often without awareness.
So it's not like they're like all bad or all good. It's a spectrum. But what I find is that, it feels a little less oppressive when I'm in queer spiritual spaces because of that ambiguity. You know, it's just that life experience and less of a binary perspective.
So that's particularly why I was excited to reach out to you. And honestly, it's a big reason why I was interested in Boulder Psychic Institute, where you are now a staff member. Is that right?
Fēnix:
Mhmm, yeah.
Forest:
Yeah, it was alleviating for me to know – I'm like, okay, there's queer people there and to know there's a non-monogamous person there. And I was like, “Okay, I can get down with this.”
Fēnix:
Yeah.
One thing I love about my – as I deepen in my spiritual path and I keep walking and growing and healing and changing, my ability to give people space to be where they are, like, just increases. Where I'm just like, yeah. Like, “you want to explore this, woohoo!”
I think that's actually kind of like something that I’ve observed just in general – as people heal and learn to give themselves space, a.k.a. learn to love themselves more, come more into their bodies, they are just going to be more naturally accepting and loving and just, just kind of like, you know, neutral towards other people instead of like, “no, you can't be that way.” Because regardless which side that's coming from. “No, no, you can't be that way because it makes me uncomfortable.” You know?
Forest:
Mhmm.
So I would love – Well, I think maybe we’ve talked about this in private, but I would love for the listeners to know how you got into the psychic world and maybe even before that – What was your perception of the psychic world, like, before you got into this?
Fēnix:
Mm hmm. Yeah.
So I grew up very Catholic, Polish, Catholic – maternal family line – and I grew up across the street from a church, and I was – it was very much a part of my childhood to go and to be an altar boy hahaha. Be an altar boy in the church every weekend hahaha
And that was a whole thing, you know. And you can see maybe why it took me a while to own my bisexuality hahaha
So that was my childhood. And so then when I was a teenager, I really rebelled against all of that. And I was very like, “there is no God, fuck God. Like, that's just so stupid.” And I was very kind of just like, rebelling against this upbringing.
And then something shifted for me. When I went to college and I was 18, 19, I started experimenting, you know.
It was like a different time in my life. For those of you who are into astrology, it was my nodal return. And so I was just kind of like having this big awakening to aligning me on my soul's path moment. And I, like, was experimenting with psychedelics. I was like in some really dysfunctional, very toxic relationship patterns that were having me wake up.
And I received a Reiki attunement at that time because I was just open and exploring and trying new things.
And that Reiki attunement right now that I know, it's kind of activating your crown chakra, but I didn't know any of that at the time. That really kind of opened me up spiritually.
And in terms of my sensitivity, it was like I had always been very sensitive. And even as a child, right, like, I talked to ghosts in my childhood closet haha, but I quickly learned that that was not okay to do hahaha
And so I shut that down. But then it was kind of like all this sensitivity just opened back up again and it was very overwhelming. And I dropped out of college hahaha as one does hahaha
And I traveled around and that was really kind of the beginning of my conscious spiritual path.
I lived at monasteries. I like kind of tried all these different things, and not all of them were very positive. I ran into a lot of very deep underworld, shadowy experiences in the spiritual world during that time as well, which took me many years to reconcile.
But I ended up at Naropa University in Boulder, Colorado, which is a Buddhist inspired liberal arts college. And it wasn't until I arrived in Boulder where I started to kinda get some more grounded mentorship. And it wasn't really until I started developing my intuition at Boulder Psychic Institute, where I was just walking down the street and I saw the free healing sign. And I was like, “Oh, I'll go in there.”
Walked in there, received a free healing from some of the students and just sobbed. I just like, was like, “what?” Like I've never felt like it was so safe to be so sensitive.
And it was a pivotal moment. And I started to develop my clairvoyance and really consciously developed my intuition, and that really helped me ground and then also helped me own my intuition as a strength.
And once I was able to own it as a strength, it then kind of stopped – my intuitive, just naturalness sort of was wreaking havoc on my life in a lot of ways because I just didn't know how to kind of manage this sensitivity.
And then once I started to own it, started to ground, it had healthy mentorship, had structure, you know, of like, “Oh, this is how this is how you learn how to manage your energy.” Right?
“This is how I be empowered in relationship to the world of spirit, and the world of energy.”
Then I was able to be like, “woah,” and really deepen and slowly over time, just own my psychic-ness.
And now it's like I psychic is like just – being intuitive is just breathing, you know? It's just, it's natural and it's so empowering in my life. It makes my life so much easier and more fun.
hahahaha
And I can, like, come more into my body. It's great!
Forest:
Yeah.
I mean, that sounds really empowering. Just listening, I'm like, “Wow, that sounds nice.”
It's like integration, you know? Returning to who you have always been, but needing the door – needing the permission, almost – like the external space to be like, “Hey, it's actually safe for you just to be who you are in this way.” I mean, talk about queerness, right? Like so much overlap hahaha with psychic stuff and queer stuff.
Ahh.
Um, I wanna share a little bit about, at least, my perceptions before entering into this world. Because it sounds like for you it was very intuitive from a young age. For me, it was not that way.
I've always been sensitive, but I thought you were either born psychic or you weren't. Like it was just something you had or you didn't. I didn't know you could learn it – at a school no less. So when I found that out, that shattered my mind. And I was like, “I think I'm interested in that. Like, I wanna learn!”
And I know, like, Hollywood paints psychic phenomena in a really kind of like – I would say in a very scarcity way or a very, like, fear-inducing way.
Do you want to speak to that at all? I think it's relative to talking about liberation from systems of oppression – just the way we get indoctrinated.
Fēnix:
Yeah
Well, what's coming up for you around that?
I'm curious to hear and then I can talk more about it too.
But like, how do you see that? How do you see that when you say that?
Forest:
Yeah.
Like when I think of psychic phenomena, at least in Hollywood, I think of scary movies. It's something to be feared or like even it's kind of one in the same, like the way that we have been socialized. Like maybe the way that as a kid you learned, “okay, maybe it's not okay for me socially to talk to ghosts in my closet.” And it's like, okay, did that come from Hollywood? Or like, what came first? You know, they're both kind of one in the same for me.
So for my understanding. Well – I also know the CIA is very, like, monetarily invested in Hollywood. So they do a lot of the programming there. Like, there's a big agenda. So it’s in their best interest – the one percent's best interest for us not to tune into these psychic powers. To be so afraid of them that we shut them down. That's what I see.
Fēnix:
Oh, I love it. Yeah.
Hahaha
I saw the light beam ripple waves of that statement, you know, out and…yeah.
Yeah. Well, you know, and – we've talked about this offline – but like what I find is so interesting, our culture, western culture is – colonial culture, you know, imperialist – however you want to call it – the current culture that we're saturated in right now is is very invalidating to the spiritual world. Like there's no validation to the world of energy, the world of spirits.
Like “ghost, that doesn't exist” because that's not physical, you know.
It's just like anything that's not physical is invalidated. And that's where it's kind of like these intuitive abilities or even just someone who is a psychic, right?
There's a lot of misunderstanding and a lot of kind of just like, “well, what even is that? Is that even legitimate?”
And all that comes from this cultural agreement of validation and like kind of basically like – for the listeners – I'm covering my eyes.
You know?
Like kind of just “Don't look at that. Don't look over there.”
I think it's very interesting because when I look at other cultures, even on the planet right now or in the past – or in the future – but where it's not a colonial vibration. You know, cultures who are maybe more indigenous, more earth based. There are other cultures, even on the planet currently who have a spiritual connection to the spiritual world.
They have a way of validating, “Hey, there's the spiritual world, there's the spirit, you're a spirit, you have a body. You know, you're not just your brain,” which is basically what Western culture teaches is you just your brain, you know, and then you die. And who knows what happens.
Hahaha
But that causes a lot of fear and it's just not true. It's a big lie.
And so it is kind of interesting to look at that like, “hmm, how much of that lies intentional to keep people disconnected from themselves and their own truth and their own power and just their own inner sense of eternity?”
You know, you are a soul who is eternal.
When you start to actually realize that, like, that's like a whole different reorientation of how you see yourself and how you orient to your own power and ability.
And so, yeah.
Forest:
Mhmm.
Yeah.
I was gigglin’ a little bit when you were talking about how the Western world is like, really emphasizing the brain, because one of the – hahaha – one of the teachers at Boulder Psychic Institute refers to the brain as the meat computer.
hahahaha
This feels so cathartic. I'm like, “Yeah, it's really what it is. It's just like a meat computer.”
Fēnix:
hahaha
That’s really cute.
I love that hahaha
Forest:
And it is like a powerful machine, you know, it's a powerful technology.
And also there's way more advanced technology that's like metaphysical. It’s non-material. So there's a time and a place for the brain, especially when we're just like surviving or maybe doing taxes. But, you know, in the future, maybe we don't have to play all these tax games. That's what I'm seeing at least.
Hahaha
Fēnix:
Hahaha
I like that.
I like that future vision.
I’ll sign up for that hahaha.
Forest:
hahaha Yeah.
But, you know, at least for me, like – cuz it's been less than a year that I've been in Boulder Psychic Institute now. But, my goodness, it's changed my life substantially. Like, I can make decisions from a much more powerful place than just the meat computer.
haha
I still check in with the meat computer, but it's not the only thing making the decisions. And now that I have my intuition I can check in with, I can check in with my heart and be like,
“Oh, how does my heart feel about this? Okay, How does my brain feel? How does Spirit – how does my soul feel about this?”
And they're not always like 100% agreeing with each other, but it just gives me, like, such a deeper way of, like, confidence in the way I move through the world knowing that I'm not just living in the material world. It's way more holistic.
Fēnix:
Mmmm.
I love that. Yeah.
Yeah, it's fascinating because – even if you look at the way the human brain is designed, there is a left brain and a right brain, right? Where it's like the left brain is the logical capacity. The right brain is that more intuitive, creative capacity. And I do see that we as human beings, like there is that ability to kind of have more balance with regards to that, that even just within the actual brain.
And, yeah, we just live in a world that currently, the current social agreement – which is why it's exciting to be here because I'm just like things are changing. This is a time of great change on planet earth.
And, yes, change sometimes feels awful. Change is like looking at all that dark shit that we don't want to look at. But personally, as someone who – well, and that's one big thing that my psychic training has given me – is the ability to roll with change.
And we're not taught that – just in our culture currently – the ability to actually stay flowing, stay fluid, stay loose when change is happening so you can kind of adapt to it more.
And so with that skill, with that ability, I'm just, you know – and I have my days where I'm just like, “ahhh whatever, this planet is just blahh” hahaha
But, but I'm just like, in general, just like, it's very exciting to be here because it is a time of change. And maybe more balance, you know, bringing more balance onto the planet.
Or maybe not.
hahahaha
Forest:
hahaha oh goodness
“Or maybe not.”
hahaha
Yeah, just neutral.
That's a skill. I don't think the population at large is there yet with like, “Oh yeah, or maybe not.”
You know, there's like a lot of doom and gloom around these days, which is why I want to make this space to talk about hope and inspiration and what's possible for the future.
And a big part of what's been inspiring me is having access to all these psychic tools. And just for people who are maybe less familiar with this terminology – when I say psychic tools, I think maybe sometimes people think of like a crystal ball and like you're looking into the future.
It's like, “Ooh, a psychic.
But for me, at least, the way I relate to it is just like my metaphysical tools. It's like working with the unseen, moving energy around, manifesting and grounding and, you know, setting boundaries, making separations.
Is there anything you would add to that? Psychic tools.
Fēnix:
Yeah.
I define psychic as being intuitively awake. So, awake to your intuition.
What is intuition?
Your ability to sense through whatever kind of sense you're using. Uh, the non-physical world. And so psychic tools are basically spiritual tools. They're basically energy tools that you can take with you when you die, which is – how freaking cool is that?
Forest:
A lifelong investment. Yeah.
Talk about anti-capitalism. Like, I’m not hoarding wealth so I can, you know, buy my way to safety.
But I'm just, like, investing in my eternal well-being, you know?
hahahaha
Fēnix:
Hahahaha
Legit. It’s legit, yeah.
hahahaha
Forest:
So I want to talk about the power of the mind because, like, I mean – maybe to you and me, it's very obvious how powerful it is.
And, yet, the way that we are socially conditioned within imperialism is like, “Oh yeah, that's not real.” Just, you know, uplifting the meat computer. And then, “oh, if you can't see it, then it's not real” or even like making fun of it or making fun of people, or even locking people away in institutions and, yeah, like ultimately disempowering them to whatever degree.
So, I mean, I have my thoughts, of course, but I would love to hear from you.
What do you see is the impact of belittling the power of the mind?
And then on the flipside. Like, what possibilities does it create when we actually tap into that power that we have inside of us?
Fēnix:
Yeah.
Mmm.
Thank you for that delicious question.
And then, Would love to hear what you're thinking about it too.
What comes up for me initially is – when you are disconnected from yourself spiritually, when you are not able to see the spiritual world, you're not able to be awake or aware of the world of energy, life becomes very small, you know?
It's like this very narrow perspective where it can just become very easy to get stuck in places of lack of hope, you know, like hopeless-ness.
And it just becomes a very narrow way of looking at the world. And of course it's much easier to then be influenced or be controlled or feel disempowered when you're in that very narrow way of looking at things.
And the beautiful thing, that intuitive perspective – connecting to your intuition, connecting to your eternal self – you as a being – and starting to open that up – is, it really does expand your ability to imagine or see or perceive what is possible. It's very expansive, right?
Instead of getting narrowed down, you kind of go the other way. And it's more expansive. And then that's where it's like, “Oh, I can see a future that is hopeful. I can see a future that is not.” Like, you're more able to kind of have this expansive view.
And that's often what I observe in my readings with people. People come to me for the spiritual perspective on things because it's more expansive. It expands their perception.
And right now on the planet, we're really moving currently in a direction that can be very narrow and very – right?
Like even look at like politics. It's very black and white.
hahaha
And there's not a lot of creativity or like imagination of just like what could be possible beyond these, like narrow ways of looking at things.
And so when you tune in to yourself as a spirit and you start to awaken yourself to the spiritual world, it creates that expansiveness. It creates more room for you to imagine and create something that you might not have been able to see or even imagine before.
You know, the ability to imagine is vital to the well-being of someone. Now, it's like your imagination is an incredibly powerful tool and anything you can do to feed that will definitely serve your life, you know, going forward.
Forest:
Mhmm.
Oooof, I could talk for hours about this. This is really igniting my fire.
Fenix:
hahahahaha
Forest:
Like, I know we only have like 20 minutes. I'm like, okay, let me choose wisely. Where do I focus in?
Like a kid in a candy shop hahahaha
Aaaaah.
Well, maybe I'll say this – I'm a big fan of adrienne maree brown. She's an author and activist. She wrote Emergent Strategy and Pleasure Activism. She's really inspired by Octavia Butler, a sci-fi author, who – all she does is like, imagine worlds. And it's just – it's really deeply impacted my ability to imagine.
And the big thread between these two authors is this concept of shaping change. Not only is change the only constant, but it's kind of like, “Well, if change is the only thing that's constant, then, like, let us not resist change, but let us actually participate in shaping the change.”
And that feels so empowering because, like you're saying, change is fucking scary. At least it can be.
Like, even if you're excited about it – the human technology is just really like outdated and it's like, “Oh my God, change is scary.” You know?
It just happens, like, on a very subconscious level.
So and, especially if we don't like the direction the change is going, it feels terrifying.
So for me, it is so empowering – just this idea of embracing change and shaping it and – what better way to actually, like, practically shape change than with the power of the mind?
Maybe on face value, people say, “Oh, what's that gonna do? Like, “I want to see you marching in the streets, honestly, burning down the government building. I want to see you, you know, X, Y, Z.”
But it's like, well, as long as we're undervaluing how powerful our mind power is, then we're just going to be stuck in material activism. But what about like the quantum activism? You know, like that might be actually been more potent than the material activism.
Not to say that we should stop all the material activism. It's all an ecosystem. There's a place for everything.
But what I'm seeing is missing from the social justice movement is this spirituality – and not like in a religious way where it's just, you know, that black and white thinking and it's very like punishment energy or shame energy.
Fēnix:
hahaha
Forest:
But I'm talking about that expansive – ugh
– I'm talking a lot. So this is the last thing I'll say and then I'll pass you the mic – what I feel really excited about is – ugh, the longing in my heart just to gather people in big groups and imagine, together, possibilities outside of this current reality.
Cuz, like, most of us are fed up no matter what side of the political aisle people are on. People just are like, “This is not working.”
Ughh, and I mean – you know how it is – when you get – like when you do things individually with your mind, it can be powerful. And all that mind power is amplified when we come together and do it.
Fēnix:
Mhmm.
Forest:
Ughhh.
That really excites me. And that's actually where I see the focus of my work changing into that direction. Like how to use these psychic tools to help people clear the energy of fear from the body. How to get the energy of the empire out of our heart and our mind and our soul, and how to actually dream our own dreams.
Fēnix:
Mmm.
Forest:
Because, in the current moment, we're actually living in somebody else's dream and we all hate it. But it's like, okay, well, if we can tap into the power of the mind, then like, what do we want to create?
Fēnix:
Yesssss!
Forest:
That was a tangent, yeah hahaha
Fēnix:
It was a beautiful tangent. Yeah.
I love what you said there, especially at the end of, like, dreaming our own dreams. There's a lot of wisdom in that statement.
Like, Yeah.
Yeah. And, you know, and in my experience – because I did really enter psychic development work being very – honestly – self punishing and other punishing activist.
Hahahaha
That was part of my path. You know?
Hahaha
And I really had to learn to focus on myself and I really had to learn how to go within and start to – right?
Like, like you said, de-program, heal, release a lot of this social conditioning that has gotten into my space that would have me treat myself and others from that place of punishment or just from just a non-spacious way where I was just kind of trying to change and control everyone.
Forest:
Mhmm
Fēnix:
And I love what you said there too, about the material world and then the energetic world, because they're very much in relationship.
And yes, we do need – we always need both happening.
And one of the main programs on the planet that is a part of a colonial Western cultural program is to focus on the physical world.
And that's like the only thing that's real, right? And so if you're only focusing on like what you said, material activism, but you're not focusing on that above dimension – as above, so below – the world of energy, you're not shifting your own energy, you know, it's not we're not going to see the kind of change on the physical world that we want to see.
And I've just observed that in my own life. If I want to shift something in my life, I have to shift the energy so that, then, there's that space for it to land in the physical world. That's just kind of how it works.
Hahaha
Forest:
Yeah.
Ahhhh, this is so rich.
The theme of, like, individualism is coming up for me. And maybe urgency because things are chaotic. Like there's no hiding that. The veils are being lifted left and right and the chaos has been going on.
But now we're just like eyes open or like “what the fuck, you know?” And there is the sense of urgency of like, “we need to respond right now.”
And I'm not the only one with this observation, but it seems like most of the activist spaces are just responding in defense to these, like attacks that we're experiencing as a global community, really – as an Earth community like environmental attacks, all of it.
Ugh.
And as long as we're responding from that place of urgency, then maybe there's a fear of like, well, if I slow down to tune inwards, to tune into my – or maybe even taking the time and investing the money to go to psychic school in the face of like genocide and climate crisis and just X, Y, Z. There's so many things. Maybe that feels like scary. Maybe it feels like individualism.
But something that really resonates with me that Miwa Mack says (the founder of the Boulder Psychic Institute) is – I'm not going to quote this perfectly – but what I understand is like the more that we are able to tune into our soul vibration and like really tune into our intuition, that creates the opportunity for that deeper external work.
Kind of that “as above, so below.”
Cuz if one element is missing, then even if we're acting from a place of urgency and maybe in the ego, it's like “this is the righteous thing to do,” maybe it's actually not as effective than if we were to move just a little more slowly and intentionally.
Fēnix:
Yeah. Yeah.
And, you know, I will say that everyone has their own path.
And so the path of even being, you know, in a kind of more just immediate response to some kind of injustice in the world is a worthy path.
That's one thing that I don't like, about some of, again, that kind of very limiting programming that can come up in all kinds of social dynamics, including in movements for social change, is that there's only one way.
Look at that lie and how it's everywhere on the planet – in religious circles, in social circles of all kinds – “there's only one way.”
And that's just not true. There is not only one way, I can, you know, change myself, change my world from a certain kind of way that works for me and the way that's gonna look for somebody else, even at different times in their life, is going to be different.
And so it's really just about what is your way like internally, connected to your truth?
Because another thing that I observe on the planet is we have a very interesting dynamic happening between the individual and the collective, where those two vibrations are really in competition with one another, where it's like “we can only have one.”
hahaha
There's you're either like super autonomous or you're super with the group. It's like, “well, you actually need both of those.”
In order for both of them to be healthy, you need to be able to own and have your own autonomy in order to be in a healthy, empowering relationship with someone else and a group instead of a codependent one.
And so it's kind of like – what I see on the planet with those two vibrations is that there's a lot of like one or other, right?
And there's a lot of one way.
And the more that we can step out of there's not just one way.
What is my way for me? How can I own that? Own my truth and then give other people space to have their own ways.
Forest:
Yes. Yes!
Yeah, that to me is peace on earth.
Fēnix:
Mmm.
Forest:
And I think it's probably frustrating for a lot of people to hear it, especially with that sense of urgency. It's like, well, if we're not just trying to get everybody to work in one way or to reach one specific goal by reaching – like even reaching a goal in a very particular way – the more that we're able to actually just allow people the space to be in their process, to be where they're at, to be in their soul journey, and to just embrace our gifts, you know? Cuz, like, we're diverse beings by nature. So it'd be strange if we were all one way anyways, no matter what our cause is.
So the more that we can just hold nuance with compassion and just, you know, create that permission of like, “okay, maybe I don't agree with your approach or your ideas – or even, you know, what you're working towards – but just holding the space for that is an act of peace on Earth.
You know, like the more that we can be on the same team, even in the face of difference. Maybe that's kind of triggering for some people to hear. I don't know, depending on where they're at, but – because it doesn't feel like a quick solution.
But when we're looking at an energetic vibration, you know, we don't need 100% of the population to be vibing at that level. We only need like a certain threshold we have to cross until the entire collective consciousness is shifting, and that will bring us closer and closer towards peace.
Fēnix:
Mmmm.
Yeah.
Now, this is reminding me of my experience with my mom, where I, for so long, was really focused on trying to change her and be like, “Oh God, she's horrible. She needs to be different. She needs to think differently. She votes this way and I hate it.”
You know? hahaha
Forest:
Mmmm. haha I get it, yeah.
hahaha
Fēnix:
And it wasn't until I was able to create enough space in that relationship where I kind of took my own space from her, focused on myself, healed some things within myself so that I could hold space for the pain and the anger and the frustration and all the things that I felt towards my mom. Let go of all the things that weren't mine to begin with.
That makes it much more easy hahaha
And then just give her space to be who she is, which, you know – it’s a practice. I'm not perfect at this – but giving her space to just be who she is, which is sometimes wounded and sometimes like this and blah blah blah. It's amazing to me how much I've just been able to watch her change and validate these little ways.
Where I'm like, “Wow Mom, you're growing a little bit. That's so cool!”
And I'm like – just, it's amazing what space as a vibration will do for relationships, for change. You know, it's – and it really starts by Can you give yourself that space?
Forest:
Right.
Fēnix:
Can you within yourself, give yourself space – instead of focusing on the other person, bring that focus back to yourself?
And, yeah, it's just incredible.
Ha
Forest:
Yeah.
It's funny, there's kind of a dichotomy coming up for me around ease and effort at the same time.
Because part of me is like, “Oh yeah, it sounds more easeful. Like, you don't have to force her growth or control her growth or shove it down her throat. But, you just take a step back. You release attachment to the outcome, to who she is and how she is, and then the growth just happens on its own. Like you don't have to do anything.
And at the same time, it takes a lot of effort within our social context haha – the conditioning that we have where we – like, it actually takes effort to let go and to give somebody space.
But it's a practice, right? So the more you do it, the more easeful it can become.
Fēnix:
It's totally a practice and we as human beings are natural matchers.
We match. You know, when someone walks in the room and like they're at a certain vibration, you just kind of naturally match that.
And so what I've noticed in my relationship with my mom is – if I focus on myself as someone who is working on myself, I'm becoming more gentle, I'm healing – you know – I'm coming home to myself. My mom will then have the space to kind of match that or not. And sometimes she does. Sometimes she doesn’t.
And it's amazing. Like, we do naturally match. And so I think that's a cool thing hehe
Forest:
Mmm.
Yeah, that really resonates with me with a recent experience I had with some of my biological family, where I was so shocked at how they showed up in response to my authenticity haha – like in a delightful way.
Yeah, I just feel that matching and what feels powerful to me about the psychic tools is like – I was, like, totally taking meditation breaks and, like, journaling and stuff. I was like, grounding my energy, so I could keep that vibration to stay in my own energy.
And so it feels powerful. It's like, “Wow, I can actually shape change with little effort. Like I don't have to force it down people's throats. I can just be myself. And that's like an invitation for them to commune with me.”
And it's not that I'm not influenced by other people too, but the more I can hold those energetic boundaries, it just feels like I'm spreading peace haha ya know?
Fēnix:
Yeah, you're embodying it.
You know, it's cliche, but be the change you want to see in the world, right? hahaha
You're embodying it and doing it on an energetic level. And that's leadership, you know.
Forest:
hahaha Yeah.
I'm laughing because I had this, like, frustrating – very clear, clearly communicated spiritual guidance I received in a dream.
hahaha
I was just stressed about, like “How on earth am I going to find housing security in this day and age? Like, it just feels really hard and it's like an anxiety I carry.”
So I'm like, “Please, spirit, guide me.” Like, “What do I do?’”
And the fucking answer I got it was like, “Be peace and peace will come.”
And I was like, “Ugh. Thank you.”
Like, “Damn, that's not what I wanted to hear. But I’ll take it.”
It's like so vague, but it's, like, specific at the same time, you know. It's not like, “here, move to this place and move into this house with these people.”
It's like, no, “Just be peace. You got it.”
Fēnix:
Right?
And that answer that you received from your dream space is like pointing you back to you. Right. It's like you have the power here.
You.
Forest:
Yes. Yes.
So let's go ahead and start wrapping up, although I feel like we definitely could talk for hours. This is like some good, good stuff right here.
hahaha
But alas, we live in a material world with the social construct of time, so we're going to abide by that.
Hahaha
I have a question for you, but I wonder if there's a more powerful question. So I'm going to offer you this. Take it or leave it. If there's another kind of, like, closing thought that you would like to leave us with, please do.
The curiosity I have in this moment is kind of around this idea of what we practice at the small scale sets the pattern for the whole system. So and it's this theme of like collectivism and individualism and the balance between the two where it's not either or.
So as you're describing this inner work that you're growing soul loves to do around your mom and around relationships in general – How do you see that impacts the collective at large?
Fēnix:
Mmmm
Yeah, you know, it's very similar to – I feel like in just a good transition to what we were just talking about with – where I did a rite of passage experience once where I was in the woods for a few days and I just kept having this one very like single image keep like seeing it over and over and over again. It was that image of a drop of water going into like a pond or a lake or it's like “boop” and then it creates those ripples.
And that's how I – that's my image answer to that question.
hahaha
Where it's like – well, one thing I'll say…
Backing up just a little bit – is on my own path, I've had to let go of a lot of responsibility that I was carrying that wasn't really mine. I'm not really responsible for everyone on the planet, you know? And I can't – I can't carry that on my shoulders. It literally causes pain. It's not going to work out well. It's very heavy, you know? And I think –
Forest:
It's counterproductive.
Fēnix:
It's very heavy.
And I see a lot of people – myself when I was younger included – carrying around the weight of the world. And it's just too heavy. And just not possible.
And so when I was able to let go of the weight of the world and let go of some of that responsibility, like – “no, I'm not responsible for, like, saving the planet, you know, which I don't even agree with that terminology, but like, it's just influencing change on like the entire world.
And then I focused on, “Well, what, what can I – what do I have control over?”
I have control over myself and my own vibration and my own energy. And then through that, it ripples out – right? – around me, into my environment, into my friendships, my community, my family.
And that's just a little beacon of light I'm just creating on the planet.
And that's actually really powerful.
And the more people that are doing that – the more light that we're bringing to the world, the more that you're bringing your own truth and authenticity and light, it's just giving other people that permission. “Oh, I could step into more of my truth or I could take this step, which leads me closer to myself and my light and bring more of my light as a being into my body.”
And, so, essentially how I see it affecting the collective is – you become walking permission.
And that does create a ripple effect.
Forest:
Ooh.
Let me just breathe that in. hahaha
Ahhhh.
We are at time.
But is it okay if I make another comment and then we can close?
Fēnix:
Please. Yes.
Forest:
Ok.
Um, ahhh.
Yeah, deeply resonating with what you're saying.
And another analogy that's similar is like a grass roots level of change, you know?
And perhaps it's even more peaceful and more impactful – not saying that it takes no effort, but – compared to the dominant paradigm where the state of the world is the way it is because of coercion, because of violence and force – it was not like everybody was like consenting to capitalism. Like, no, that was imposed through blood and horror, really.
So even if we have beautiful intentions, we can unconsciously be upholding the empire by embodying this imperialist norm of, like, domination and control.
“Well, I see the best way for the future, so I'm going to impose it over the whole world.”
You know, it's just more of the same. So even though the intention is great, perhaps the more easeful and joyful and powerful and even maybe like – feeling more connected to the community – way of facilitating change is just focusing on what is in your locus of control.
Fēnix:
Mhmm.
Ahhh, yeah. And the last thing that I’ll say – hahaha
Forest:
2 hours later, yeah.
hahahaha
Fēnix:
The client is like “where is Fēnix?”
Hahaha
It’s like, right?
Cuz that's what I was as that self-righteous activist, like “the world's gotta change!”
But what I was actually doing was – I was matching the empire. I was matching all of this programming that was in my space that was having the act in this punishing way towards myself and others.
And as a psychic, you know, I'm trained to look at, well, “what's the energy behind the action?”
The energy is what's most senior, what's most important.
And so it's like change the energy, act from my truth, my gentleness, and then whatever kind of I do that in the physical world is going to spread that around instead of – yeah.
So, we could keep going, but yeah hahaha
Forest:
The gentle revolution.
Ugh, there’s nothing more revolutionary than a gentle revolution, because that's a completely different paradigm than what we're currently living in.
So, yes to that! Cheers, to the gentle change shaping.
Well, thank you so, so much for being on the podcast.
And would you like to share how people can connect with you further?
Fēnix:
Sure. Yeah.
Thank you for having me, Forest.
I just love the space of just the Abundant Futures podcast is so sweet. And happy to be here.
Yes, you can connect with me on Instagram. @Fenix.Grace
So it's Fenix spelled with an F.
So it's F E N I X dot Grace.
My website is FenixGrace.com as well. Spelled the same way. Yeah.
Forest:
Great.
Yeah.
And I'll say for people listening, I do recommend going to Fēnix for a healing or a reading.
She can read your soul essence and really literally do some magic.
So you can book on her website if you're interested.
Fēnix:
Aww thanks, love.
Yes, it is. It is magic. It's true. hahaha
Forest:
It’s literal magic, yeah.
hahahahaha
All right, well, I'll let you go. We'll be in touch.
Fēnix:
Sounds good.
Bye Forest.
Forest:
Bye.
How did today's episode leave you feeling inspired?
You can let me know by leaving a review or sending an email to AbundantFutures888@gmail.com.
If you want to check out Fēnix’s writings or book an energy healing session with her, I have her website linked in the description below, so check that out.
If you're interested in checking out my writings or booking a session with me for relationship support, you can check out AbundantFutures.net
And consider sharing this episode with a friend if you want to spread the seed of hope and inspiration.
And we'll see you next time.
Peace be with you.
